Talk:Pen Pal Wiki

From Pen Pal Wiki

This is where we discuss how to build and improve the Pen Pal Wiki and the Pen Pal Wiki project. CQ 16:00, 15 October 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Pen Pal Wiki namespaces

The project space in includes all page that are linked with the name of the local project, in our case, [[Pen Pal Wiki:Some page]]. Notice that Pen Pal Wiki:Community Portal is in the project space. Pen Pal Wiki and Talk:Pen Pal Wiki are about the Pen Pal Wiki project.

The Main Page and articles linked with no prefix: [[Article name]] are in the main namespace. MediaWiki sites also have Help, Template, Category and Special namespaces. See m:Help:Namespace.

I have some ideas on how to improve the content here through the use of namespaces, categories and templates to provide multi-lingual functionality. It's more complex than it seems at first glance but I think I know some ways to move the Pen Pal Wiki project a bit further along. I hope I am being helpful. CQ 16:21, 15 October 2006 (UTC)

If you have some ideas for multi-lingual functionality, go ahead. You seem to know a lot more than me. However, now that a few more people are starting to contribute, I think it's important that a few points get discussed first:

Firstly, and you might already have some ideas in this area (having mentioned namespaces, categories and templates for mult-lingual functionality), should the page in each language be a subpage of that language's page. This is how I currently have it set up, but I'm open to suggestions. Originally, it was in the format of Name of Language:Name of page (ie. a namespace type setup), but I had some issues with this (namely, I couldn't link to a page in the Esperanto section because it would instead take Esperanto:Name of page to mean go to Name of page on the Esperanto Wikia), and changed it to the current setup.

I notice that CQ has not used subpages of a language for Writing an article. This isn't a huge problem, but I would like to be sure that we are being consistent throughout the wiki. Everyone, please give your thoughts on all of this - language subpages, namespaces, etc.

I'm also wondering how relevant a Writing an article page is. Originally I intended this site as a pen pal directory, which means it's not so much a matter of articles as a matter of listing oneself on existing pages. So if this wiki is going to have articles, what are they going to be about? Will this be purely articles about using the site, help getting pen pals, or all sorts of other topics too?

And lastly, the help everyone is putting in this month is greatly appreciated by myself, and possibly by others too. In particular, CQ has made some brilliant input, and he seems to know what he's doing better than me.

CQ, would your job be easier as a Sysop? If so, and providing you're happy with the idea, I'm happy to make you one.

Markdarb 03:04, 16 October 2006 (UTC)

[edit] The Main Page - Multilingual vs Lots of English vs A bit of both

This is quite an important decision to make, as the Main Page is the first thing people see on entering the wiki. Do we want it to no English (other than the link to the English page) so that it is truly multilingual? Do we want it to lean that way, but still have some English catchphrases to entice people in and tell them what the wiki's about? Do we want it to have a fancy main page with lots of English, but with some prominent multi-lingual links for the Main Page of each language? The Main Page used to have a nice colourful table with lots of English writing, but I made the decision (prompted by a suggestion) to scrap it. Now that we have more people in the community, I believe that everyone should discuss this so we can make a decision based on consensus.

Please go to Talk:Main Page#Main page to give your opinion.

Markdarb 03:31, 16 October 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Template:2

More about this new template CQ made. I think it should have another link for each language, a link to a page which tells people how to use the site to get a pen pal (either listing themself or finding one), eg. Getting a pen pal, Obtenir un correspondant (please don't quote me on the French translation, I'm only a high school student and I've never been to a French-speaking country). This page, I believe, would be important because more people will be using this wiki to get a pen pal or list themselves than contributing to it by making a new article, and it should be easy for them to get help in doing this. Markdarb 03:42, 16 October 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Structure

OK. I think we need to look at some structural things and how to Implement them. The idea of pseudo-namespaces for languages is kind of awkward for MediaWiki. Its fine to have language articles:

And they can even have subpages:

English/Native
English/Beginning
etc.

I think it makes more sense, however to place these as language guides in Help namespace Help:English, Help:Deutsch etc..

I'm planning to build a number of Main Pages:

So what does this mean? You can see the structure by looking at Template:EN

Main Page/de will show an english alias of the German banner elements, while Main Page/DE will show the elements translated to German. This way, we can almost automate the translation process and allow users to view versions of these in their own language. The content and structure will be uniform. See the refactored section on the Pen Pal Wiki page. CQ 00:38, 18 October 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Questions and comments

edit me

[edit] Listing and browsing penpals

We can use Mark's signup sheets that are already a fairly good structure. We just add the corresponding Category links for classifying them into a master Browse category. Users will have access on this one page to all the Language/AgeGroup categories.

The new user will sign up at the appropriate Language/AgeGroup page. I or another volunteer will use the information supplied by the user to place them, via their optional user page, into a proper category under Users which is one level down from Browse. This way, if they want to communicate via PPW as an alternative to mail and email, they can find each other. We can develop other listing pages too, as we grow.

As for the articles idea, some users may want to do forums or chat about various topics. I think this works better than Forums and is especially cool service for those involved in Creative Writing, Poetry, Science topics... whatever. These will be under Topics. They can present an idea, poem or anything and invite comments and critique from other users. Just one of several ways to use the wiki features.

Let me know what ya'll think. Help figuring out the categories is needed. CQ 19:35, 27 October 2006 (UTC)

I like your idea of being able to talk about things like ideas and writing, along with comments and critique. That's something I hadn't thought about at all. Do you think my structuring of the pages I made before you came along is good or needs changing to fit in with an overall, standardised way of doing things?

I think I understand what you're saying, and it looks good to me, although I'd better clarify I've understood by saying it in my own words (along with a few extra bits that I've assumed):

(My interpretation of what CQ said:) New users list themselves in the appropriate Language/Age group page, as per what I've already set up or with a similar system. If they have a user account, we then add this information to their user page and categorise it appropriately so that people can browse the categories to find them. Users who don't have an account are only listed on the page they list themselves on, and hence cannot be categorised. If they would like to be categorised they should sign up for an account first. Users with prior experience with MediaWiki can leap right in and set up their userpages themselves (a simple matter of typing a description, leaving contact details or requesting that people contact them through their talk page, and categorising their user page appropriately).

I've introduced some ideas there or expanded on some bits CQ didn't quite explain. CQ, if that's not what you meant, please say so. Anyone else, what do you think?

If we are going to categorise user pages (which I assume is what CQ meant when referring to categories we need to figure out), I would think we should have categories such as age, interests, things wanting to talk about. We could think of some really basic categories to start with (computers, reading, writing, sport, etc) and expand on these as time goes on, perhaps making more specific sub categories. We could also possibly have categories like single, married, not looking, etc, although I think this is something to be avoided.

What I really like about what CQ said (assuming I understood it properly) is that people can choose to just list themselves on a page (and this listing could be removed or archived after a certain period of time), or they can choose to have their own permanent user page which can be found through the appropriate categories. These two distinctive ways are likely to suit different people, but I think CQ has described a way in which they can work well together.

Markdarb 00:00, 28 October 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Categories

OK. I've been working on categorizing what we have so far. Category:Browse should eventually include all of the language categories (English, Deutsch, Français, etc.). There exists now also a Category:Age groups which includes Category:Under 18, Category:Over 18, Category:Under 30, etc.. I haven't finished categorizing all of these, but this should demonstrate what I have in mind for organizing things.

User:Markdarb is correct about the general scheme for adding and categorizing Penpals. We should emphasize that signing up via a Pen Pal Wiki user account is optional, but has advantages. Note that the categories Category:User_en, Category:User _fr, etc are for those with Pen Pal Wiki user accounts. Others will simply show up on the signup sheets for their language and age group. Does this make sense? Is it workable?

I still think things have to link better to the Main Page and be more clear. I've noticed that a few people have entered things on the signup sheets without any sort of contact information. Still lots of work to do. Thanks for your feedback. CQ 22:23, 31 October 2006 (UTC)

Thanks for everything you've been doing, CQ. I really think everything's on the right track right now. Since the pages I set up are now in use again, I'll go about improving them some time soon. I would like a form on the page that people can use to add themselves instead of having to click on the link and use the add comment page (which looks slightly confusing, and which is the universal add comment page, meaning any text is shown when people add comments to talk pages, etc, too). With a form customised to each page (perhaps with a generic template) it should then be easy to clarify exactly what information should be provided, specific to that page, including contact details.

On the topic of categories, do you think we should institute interest categories yet? And is there any way of searching MediaWiki for a page which is in more than one category? This would be extremely useful in searching for penpals, eg. English speaking, Under 18, interested in...

Markdarb 09:03, 1 November 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Pen Pal Wiki's growing! Where to from here?

I've been very lazy and lost interest in Pen Pal Wiki for a while. Today I came back and was very happy to see so much activity on the Recent Changes page. It seems that being Collaboration of the Month (or two or three months!) has really helped Pen Pal Wiki get off the ground. However, there's still lots more work to do. Here are some of the things I think need doing from here. Please give your opinion, or help out doing them!

Archiving the directory pages: In particular, the pages in the English section are becoming full to the brim! At some stage we're going to have to start archiving them, so it's important to get ready. I think it's important to archive older listings so that they are still easily browsable. So how are we going to archive them? I suppose the other thing to bear in mind is that some of the early listings don't have contact details/instructions. It seems that the people they are about haven't returned and added the contact details, so those listings are of no use. They serve no purpose on the main directory pages, so archiving would be beneficial to get them out of the way.
Setting up the categories: One thing that was discussed intensely a few months ago was the use of categorised user pages versus the use of directory pages. It was ultimately decided that they can coexist quite nicely. The directory's seem to be going quite well (albeit they're not extremely well organised), but not much has happened in the way of categories. We need to get the categories sorted out (starting at Category:Browse) so that they can be efficiently used to categorise and then find users. Once the categories are set up properly, we need to advertise the fact that they're there to be used, so that users who want to can set up and categorise their own user pages. I think what categories we're going to have, how they'll be sorted, etc, can be talked about at Category talk:Browse.
Overall cleanup: Everything needs cleaning up and standardising. There are all sorts of pages and templates around, and I'm not sure what's needed and what's redundant. We need to decide what we're going to use and how we're going to use it, and then we need to have everything standardised across all of the languages. We also need clear instructions on how to use the different features of Pen Pal Wiki.

I think those are the main things. Please voice your opinion! Markdarb 21:59, 12 December 2006 (UTC)

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